Posts:
78
Registered:
23-May-2023
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Thumbnails not respecting the webp setting
Posted:
19 Mar 25, 22:50
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Not sure why, but the thumbnails are in .jpb format even though I've set the setting to use .webp format.
Even though these are thumbnails just creating them as .webp's would save a reasonable amount of space on a very large gallery.
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Posts:
3,949
Registered:
4-Aug-2006
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Re: Thumbnails not respecting the webp setting
Posted:
19 Mar 25, 23:17
in response to: nigel-aves
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Just tested with jAlbum 37.2 and all thumbnails are in webP format.
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Posts:
8,207
Registered:
31-Jan-2006
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Re: Thumbnails not respecting the webp setting
Posted:
19 Mar 25, 23:33
in response to: RobM
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Same result on Windows - all WEBP, if that's what you've told it to do.
I still maintain that it's a false economy - you're just trading space for quality. If you don't give a fig about the image quality, on the other hand....
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Posts:
3,919
Registered:
18-Oct-2002
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Re: Thumbnails not respecting the webp setting
Posted:
24 Mar 25, 09:27
in response to: nigel-aves
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Not sure why, but the thumbnails are in .jpb format even though I've set the setting to use .webp format.
Even though these are thumbnails just creating them as .webp's would save a reasonable amount of space on a very large gallery.
Remember that, to create webp images only, you need to set the output format under Settings-Images-Advanced to "WebP" as well. It's not enough to only set up WebP as the output format under "Variants" |
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Posts:
78
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23-May-2023
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Re: Thumbnails not respecting the webp setting
Posted:
24 Mar 25, 16:46
in response to: davidekholm
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David,
I did check the settings. The thumbnails for individual photographs are using the settings correctly, but the thumbnails for Albums are not, they are still in JPG format.
Those are the ones I quizzed before writing this "bug" report.
Nigel.
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Posts:
8,207
Registered:
31-Jan-2006
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Re: Thumbnails not respecting the webp setting
Posted:
24 Mar 25, 16:58
in response to: nigel-aves
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When you refer to "album thumbnails," I assume you're talking about things like the folder thumbnails that the skin generates. If that's correct, I will move this thread, since this is purely a "skin thing."
Tiger "rolls its own" when it comes to folder thumbnails, unlike some other skins, which let the jAlbum core handle it (and the core honors the choice of JPG vs WEBP for those).
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Posts:
78
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23-May-2023
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Re: Thumbnails not respecting the webp setting
Posted:
24 Mar 25, 17:55
in response to: JeffTucker
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Jeff,
You are a 100% correct. It's when the thumbnail is associated with a directory. (I was in user mode when I called them Albums!)
Off Topic.
I've attached a screenshot of a photograph, but one is .webp, and the other is .jpg. Both photographs are the same size, 4000x2666 pixels. The big difference is size, where the .jpg is 12.1MB against the .webp coming in at 6.3 MB.
Is there a very slight difference? Yes, there is, but only I can really tell. From a users perspective there really is no difference at all.
That's my take on it, but the disk space saved is enormous (23,000 odd photographs). And it does have an effect on SEO, but I think that's minor.
Take Care - Nigel.
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Posts:
8,207
Registered:
31-Jan-2006
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Re: Thumbnails not respecting the webp setting
Posted:
24 Mar 25, 18:19
in response to: nigel-aves
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(Thread moved - the images in question are the folder thumbnails generated by the skin.)
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Posts:
327
Registered:
25-Jul-2016
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Re: Thumbnails not respecting the webp setting
Posted:
25 Mar 25, 06:59
in response to: JeffTucker
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Ich kann mich noch erinnern, dass ich das Problem schon einmal erwähnt habe. Da wurde mir von vielen empfohlen, WebP in Zusammenhang mit jAlbum nicht zu nutzen.
Es gab nur Probleme.
Würde mich ja freuen, wenn es jetzt integriert wurde, da ja die Zukunft WebP ist.
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Posts:
1,485
Registered:
6-Sep-2005
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Re: Thumbnails not respecting the webp setting
Posted:
25 Mar 25, 08:13
in response to: nigel-aves
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Currently, the skin cannot generate WEBP for the folder thumbnails and hero backgrounds. This feature was added long before the WEBP format arrived at jAlbum. The skin is using jAlbum's Save image functionality, but it does not use the WebP format when Advanced / Images format is set to WebP. Although the WebP format seems to generate smaller images, the quality lags. And when you bump up the quality setting to match JPG, the file size will be the same. There are no wonders. In my opinion, the blockiness in WebP in smooth gradients is even worse than the edge noise in JPEGs.
Here's a sample album:
https://samples.jalbum.net/Image%20quality%20test%202024/index.html |
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Posts:
8,207
Registered:
31-Jan-2006
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Re: Thumbnails not respecting the webp setting
Posted:
25 Mar 25, 12:48
in response to: Laza
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Although the WebP format seems to generate smaller images, the quality lags. And when you bump up the quality setting to match JPG, the file size will be the same. There are no wonders. In my opinion, the blockiness in WebP in smooth gradients is even worse than the edge noise in JPEGs.
It also takes longer to generate the images.
If you don't care about the image quality, and just want to save space, dial the JPEG Quality down a few notches.
In short, no real pluses. If it were up to me, I'd remove it entirely from jAlbum. For the kinds of users jAlbum attracts, it doesn't make much sense.
Even bargain web hosts offer almost unlimited storage and almost unlimited bandwidth. Increasingly, site visitors have internet speeds that make small file size differences irrelevant. You can buy internal 5TB drives for less than $150, and external drives for even less.
The WEBP format makes sense only for sites that aren't overly concerned with the image quality (retailers, for example), and that get millions of visitors, at which point bandwidth becomes a genuine concern. |
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Posts:
78
Registered:
23-May-2023
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Re: Thumbnails not respecting the webp setting
Posted:
25 Mar 25, 23:01
in response to: JeffTucker
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Apart from the below, I'm confused why, when I point out a discrepancy in the wording of a setting, it all get's turned into "Well, WebP sucks". That's not your concern, what is your concern is that when a command that states "Force", really should work across the entire platform. We, the user, do not know if the core product or the skin creates the imagery.
I looked at the jAlbum comparison test. Both files marked as original are .PNG files.
Here is why I use .WebP format.
WebP provides file sizes that are 25-35% smaller than JPEG for the same level of quality, as measured by the Structural Similarity Index (SSIM).
WebP supports animation, while JPEG does not.
WebP supports transparency, while JPEG does not.
WebP does have a positive impact on SEO by improving page speed and mobile optimization.
WebP supports both lossy and lossless compression, allowing flexibility in file size and image quality.
There is also no actual proof that jAlbum is correct in saying this about .webp. Are there a couple of corner cases where this might be true? Probably yes. I looked at the example jAlbum posted about .jpeg and .webp. Interestingly, there is no apples-to-apples comparison. Two .webp at 80 and 90 compression, only one .jpg at 85% comparison. And the originals were not supplied in the zip file, so no true way where I can do a side-by-side test.
Once again, here is the test that no one will answer. Attached is your testcase. Please let me know the order that I have displayed the images.
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Posts:
8,207
Registered:
31-Jan-2006
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Re: Thumbnails not respecting the webp setting
Posted:
25 Mar 25, 23:59
in response to: nigel-aves
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It's just a question of where limited development resources should be applied. I believe Laza and I are on the same page on this question.
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Posts:
3,949
Registered:
4-Aug-2006
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Re: Thumbnails not respecting the webp setting
Posted:
26 Mar 25, 00:37
in response to: nigel-aves
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Apart from the below, I'm confused why, when I point out a discrepancy in the wording of a setting, it all get's turned into "Well, WebP sucks". That's not your concern, what is your concern is that when a command that states "Force", really should work across the entire platform. We, the user, do not know if the core product or the skin creates the imagery.
Just a note about 'Force' setting.
The manual, Setting>Images>Advanced
https://jalbum.net/help/en/jAlbum/Settings/Images#Advanced
States that the settings apply to thumbnails and/or slide images, no mention of other (skin specific) images. Maybe the GUI texts could be updated to explicitly state 'slide images' instead of just 'images'.
As for jpg v webP, I think that is for the end user to decide. As far as I know there is no raw processor (except maybe jAlbum, which seems to) that will export directly to webP. Makes me wonder why that is (though I would guess most are concentrating on print as the final output medium.) |
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Posts:
78
Registered:
23-May-2023
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Re: Thumbnails not respecting the webp setting
Posted:
26 Mar 25, 01:32
in response to: RobM
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Rob,
"Maybe the GUI texts could be updated to explicitly state 'slide images' instead of just 'images'." >> Agreed. Though personally speaking, consistency through the entire product would be best! 
"I think that is for the end user to decide. " >> Excatly! I keep seeing all this negativity towards .webp from jAlbum (strangely, no one else seems to be complaining about it!) , but when I look into this, running tests, etc., On every comparison I've looked at, .webp produces as good a quality as .jpg but at a much smaller file size.
.webp and .webm are formats for displaying images/videos on the internet; that is their only purpose. Never use those formats for editing. The very last process I do is run XnConvert to turn into .webp's, and it's blazingly fast. So, I'm using .webp through the entire jAlbum work flow. And it all works brilliantly. (Except the skin is converting .webp format to .jpg format  )
Nigel. |
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