Posts:
3,668
Registered:
18-Oct-2002
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Re: Data missing in preview and online
Posted:
24 Jan 24, 11:55
in response to: M-i-c-h-a
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I plan to make the priority of these configurable now.
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Posts:
3,668
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Re: Data missing in preview and online
Posted:
26 Jan 24, 18:03
in response to: M-i-c-h-a
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How about if I make the following minimal changes to the metadata section:
I swap the order between the "jAlbum" and "xmp" metadata sources and make the jAlbum source always enabled. Any downside?
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Posts:
7,942
Registered:
31-Jan-2006
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Re: Data missing in preview and online
Posted:
27 Jan 24, 09:11
in response to: davidekholm
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I think that would be a good start. As I’ve said before, I can’t imagine anyone entering a jAlbum title or comment, but then not wanting to use it. I can’t think of any downside.
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Posts:
178
Registered:
7-Nov-2021
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Re: Data missing in preview and online
Posted:
27 Jan 24, 09:28
in response to: JeffTucker
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I don't have such a deep understanding of the things in jAlbum, but I see it like Jeff.
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Posts:
3,668
Registered:
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Re: Data missing in preview and online
Posted:
29 Jan 24, 18:28
in response to: M-i-c-h-a
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Here's a beta of jAlbum 34.2. In this version the "jAlbum" comment and title source has precedence over "xmp" and the others.
To get it, replace lib/jalbum-core.jar with this one: https://jalbum.net/download/beta/jalbum-core.jar
(warning: Not tested much, but I think it should behave properly) |
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Posts:
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Re: Data missing in preview and online
Posted:
29 Jan 24, 23:54
in response to: davidekholm
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This works properly for comment, but not for title (I think this is actually a very old problem, just made more obvious now).
- Turn off the preference setting for writing xmp metadata to the files when editing.
- Check only xmp in Comment sources.
- Add an image that already contains some text in xmp.dc:title[1].
- You will see that text in the Explore view.
- Now enter a new title. That now appears in the Explore view.
- Now delete the entered title.
- There is now no way to get the xmp.dc:title[1] text again, other than by deleting and re-adding the object.
This all goes back to the same fundamental problem: the Comment sources choices apply to other variables. Only some of them. And only sometimes. Hence my recommendation to clean it all up - specify the source of comments, titles, and keywords separately, and don't try to second-guess what the user might want. |
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Posts:
3,967
Registered:
4-Aug-2006
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Re: Data missing in preview and online
Posted:
30 Jan 24, 12:37
in response to: JeffTucker
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This all goes back to the same fundamental problem: the Comment sources choices apply to other variables. Only some of them. And only sometimes. Hence my recommendation to clean it all up - specify the source of comments, titles, and keywords separately, and don't try to second-guess what the user might want.
Although it would involve more effort rather than specifying the sources let the users choose. Something like the sample settings of my metadata converter tool. There are users that don’t want to use ‘standard’ sources. |
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Re: Data missing in preview and online
Posted:
30 Jan 24, 13:40
in response to: RobM
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Although it would involve more effort rather than specifying the sources let the users choose. Something like the sample settings of my metadata converter tool. There are users that don’t want to use ‘standard’ sources.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record....
Edited by: JeffTucker on 30 Jan 2024, 10:03, to make it clear that I was responding to RobM's suggestion. |
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Posts:
3,668
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Re: Data missing in preview and online
Posted:
30 Jan 24, 14:18
in response to: JeffTucker
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I'm fully aware that, as it stands now, the "xmp" comment source checkbox also applies to how titles and keywords are read. If you toggle it on, "xmp" titles will take precedence over IPTC titles as well. Do we really need such fine granular settings as you propose? It's more logical, but we end up with tons of settings. When would you want to respect "xmp" for comments but not for titles for instance? I could move the "xmp" checkbox out of the "comment sources" box, but then we lose indication of priorities. If moved out of that box, perhaps the "xmp" checkbox could read: "Read xmp metadata before other embedded metadata"
In this beta, blanking-out a title won't give you back the backing IPTC or xmp title. I though this would be preferred. How would you else be able to blank out some embedded stuff you don't want to show? I can easily modify jAlbum so blanking-out a comment or field means deleting it and letting the lower prio metadata sources shine through, but would that be intuitive? |
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Posts:
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Re: Data missing in preview and online
Posted:
30 Jan 24, 14:23
in response to: davidekholm
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David, it's behaving one way for comments, but differently for titles. Does this make any sense? To anyone?
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Posts:
3,668
Registered:
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Re: Data missing in preview and online
Posted:
30 Jan 24, 15:21
in response to: JeffTucker
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David, it's behaving one way for comments, but differently for titles. Does this make any sense? To anyone?
In what regard? Doesn't the "jAlbum" proprietary text file format "cover" both comments and titles now? |
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Posts:
7,942
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Re: Data missing in preview and online
Posted:
30 Jan 24, 15:38
in response to: davidekholm
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David, it's behaving one way for comments, but differently for titles. Does this make any sense? To anyone?
In what regard? Doesn't the "jAlbum" proprietary text file format "cover" both comments and titles now?
No, they don't behave the same way. Step by step....
- Turn off Write xmp metadata to files. That just confuses the issue.
- Set Advanced > Metadata > Comment sources to both jAlbum and xmp.
- Add the attached image to the project. Satisfy yourself that you are seeing a meaningful title and comment, drawn from the xmp in the file.
- Delete the title and comment. Ensure that they're both now showing empty.
- Set Advanced > Metadata > Comment sources to only xmp.
- Refresh the display. The xmp comment comes back, but the xmp title never does.
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Posts:
7,942
Registered:
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Re: Data missing in preview and online
Posted:
30 Jan 24, 16:01
in response to: davidekholm
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Do we really need such fine granular settings as you propose?
It seems to pop up in here fairly often. "I'm using the Grace L. Ferguson Photo Management app, and when I add comments, it puts them in the Nikon makernote.Retouch History field. How can I get jAlbum to use those comments?"  |
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Posts:
7,942
Registered:
31-Jan-2006
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Re: Data missing in preview and online
Posted:
30 Jan 24, 17:12
in response to: JeffTucker
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I'm also very fond of the hidden and inscrutable interaction of choosing xmp as the Comment source, which also applies to titles, plus the Title source field, which contains a couple of preset IPTC choices. Four possible sources, specified in two different places. I'm not sure I have the patience to figure out how those interact.
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Posts:
3,668
Registered:
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Re: Data missing in preview and online
Posted:
30 Jan 24, 17:22
in response to: JeffTucker
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Here is what I propose as the next step:
- I move "xmp" and "jAlbum" "comment sources" out of the "comment sources" box, making them "metadata sources"
- I ensure that "xmp" and "jAlbum" applies to both comments, titles and keywords, and not like it is right now where "jAlbum" only applies to comments while "xmp" applies to all 3
Sounds good? Or, do we need to have "jAlbum" and "xmp" source settings that applies individually to comments, titles and metadata? |
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