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davidekholm

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Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 14 Dec 23, 11:19   in response to: phil44 in response to: phil44
 
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I'll ponder on it. Are everyone in favor of skipping the switching to custom ordering altogether?
RobM

Posts: 3,986
Registered: 4-Aug-2006
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 14 Dec 23, 11:40   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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I’m easy either way. Keeping the ordering as set by the user seems like a good idea, but I can imagine some users will wonder why the behaviour is suddenly different.
JeffTucker

Posts: 8,432
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 14 Dec 23, 15:07   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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davidekholm wrote:
I'll ponder on it. Are everyone in favor of skipping the switching to custom ordering altogether?

I'll try this one more time, even though I've been beating this drum for a decade, with no result.

There should be no default ordering at all. Objects should land wherever the user puts them when they're added - wherever he drags them, or after the existing objects. Stop trying to do me a "favor."

But then, the user should be able to sort the objects however he likes. Choose all the objects and sort by name. Then choose "folders first." Or start off by choosing "folders first," then select all of the folders, and sort them by name. Or choose a group of objects and sort those (and just those) by camera date.

He should even be able to choose non-contiguous objects and sort them. So he should be able to choose objects 1, 5, 12, and 25, whose names are mydog, mycat, mybird, and mysnake, and sort them by name, so that #1 is mybird, #5 is mycat, #12 is mydog, and #25 is mysnake.

This would be far more flexible than the current mess, but without generating unpleasant surprises. Where you would run into trouble would be if you try to combine that flexibility with the default automatic actions. They just end up fighting with each other.
davidekholm

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Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 14 Dec 23, 19:40   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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So, you'd prefer to having to manually issue a sorting action every now and then instead of having jAlbum keeping everything sorted automatically?
JeffTucker

Posts: 8,432
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 14 Dec 23, 21:10   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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Yes, exactly. The default action is rarely what I want.

It's gotten better since I adopted some file-naming standards that keep things straight (and, upon reflection, I could make it even better). But dealing with earlier photos, where some have camera dates, others don't, and file naming is irregular, it would have been nice to be able to select only the ones that I knew had legit camera dates, and sort only those by those dates, without touching the other stuff around them.
davidekholm

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Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 14 Dec 23, 21:53   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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If you sort only a handful of selected images here and there (a non continuous selection) where should the result be put? At the location of the 1:st selected item?
JeffTucker

Posts: 8,432
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 14 Dec 23, 22:07   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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See my description, above, using mydog, mycat, etc. Granted, that's a little byzantine. Maybe stick to contiguous collections of objects.

Of course, you could preserve the default ordering options, but add a None choice.

There are some other things that are missing, currently. I'm staring at the Explore view, and I've added some folders after adding images. But now, I want to move the folders to the top. How do I do that, without reordering the images? There's no simple Folders first on the context menu. I have to choose the default ordering. But maybe I don't want that! Maybe I want to sort the images by camera date, but move the folders to the top, and sort them alphabetically.

For things like this, the UI really fights against the user, who often has no choice but to resort to manually moving things around.
davidekholm

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Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 28 Dec 23, 18:56   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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JeffTucker wrote:

I'll try this one more time, even though I've been beating this drum for a decade, with no result.

There should be no default ordering at all. Objects should land wherever the user puts them when they're added - wherever he drags them, or after the existing objects. Stop trying to do me a "favor."

...

Drum roll... Your decade of waiting is over :-)
https://jalbum.net/forum/thread.jspa?messageID=365212&#365212
JeffTucker

Posts: 8,432
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 28 Dec 23, 21:36   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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davidekholm wrote:
Drum roll... Your decade of waiting is over :-)

Now let's talk about what I'd like to see for my 80th birthday, in 2032.
davidekholm

Posts: 3,619
Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 9 Jan 24, 09:27   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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phil44

Posts: 103
Registered: 18-Jun-2010
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 11 Jan 24, 19:41   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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davidekholm wrote:
v34 is now released. See https://jalbum.net/software/release-notes
Thanks David!

What was implemented with the keyboard shortcut meets my needs :-)

But I continue to find strange to have an action that can be triggered in several ways and which has a different behavior depending on how it is invoked. ..
davidekholm

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Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 12 Jan 24, 13:25   in response to: phil44 in response to: phil44
 
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phil44 wrote:
davidekholm wrote:
v34 is now released. See https://jalbum.net/software/release-notes
Thanks David!

What was implemented with the keyboard shortcut meets my needs :-)


Good to hear :-)

But I continue to find strange to have an action that can be triggered in several ways and which has a different behavior depending on how it is invoked. ..

I agree, but if you stick with the new image ordering mechanism, then the behavior is consistent, i.e. you always get the folder inserted where your mouse pointer resides or where the caret is.
phil44

Posts: 103
Registered: 18-Jun-2010
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 12 Jan 24, 21:13   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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davidekholm wrote:
I agree, but if you stick with the new image ordering mechanism, then the behavior is consistent, i.e. you always get the folder inserted where your mouse pointer resides or where the caret is.
I'm not sure to fully understand what you are saying, probably due to my English skill...

  • If I click on the "New Folder" Button, the mouse is over the button, so the new folder can't be inserted here. The folder is inserted at a place I don't understand...
  • If I set the mouse pointer between two images, and I right click to create a new folder with the contextual menu, this new folder is inserted elsewhere!!
  • In both cases, the current "Order By" is lost and replaced by "Custom". The "Order By" criterion is kept only by using the keyboard shortcut Ctrl-Shift-N.
  • I don't know what "the caret" is. Is this something visible ?
JeffTucker

Posts: 8,432
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 12 Jan 24, 22:42   in response to: phil44 in response to: phil44
 
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And I'm still hopelessly confused by the options.

The Folder ordering options are always grayed out, no matter what I select or don't select.

On the Ordering context menu, there's a reference to According to jAlbum Settings. What jAlbum settings are those? Where are they? Choosing that option certainly does produce some reordering, but on some mysterious basis.
RobM

Posts: 3,986
Registered: 4-Aug-2006
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 13 Jan 24, 09:48   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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JeffTucker wrote:
On the Ordering context menu, there's a reference to According to jAlbum Settings. What jAlbum settings are those? Where are they? Choosing that option certainly does produce some reordering, but on some mysterious basis.
They are from Settings > Pages > Image ordering
https://jalbum.net/help/en/jAlbum/Settings/Pages#Image_ordering
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