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phil44

Posts: 51
Registered: 18-Jun-2010
Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 20 Nov 23, 11:53
 
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I usually sort my images by shooting date, but every time I create a new folder the order changes to Custom. So every time I create a folder I have to manually reset the order to the previous value, it's annoying.
Is it possible to improve this behavior to keep the original order in a future release?
RobM

Posts: 3,796
Registered: 4-Aug-2006
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 20 Nov 23, 13:44   in response to: phil44 in response to: phil44
 
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See https://jalbum.net/help/en/jAlbum/Explore#Ordering_files_in_each_folder
‘If you add images using drag and drop you can choose to keep the order as set, or have images ordered as 'Custom'. To keep the current ordering drag the image near to the edge of the explore window and then drop it.Notice the border around the edge of the explore pane that indicates the sort order will be kept.’
phil44

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Registered: 18-Jun-2010
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 20 Nov 23, 14:05   in response to: RobM in response to: RobM
 
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Yes, I know that. When you add an image, it allows you to choose between custom order or keeping the current sort.

But there is nothing like that when you create a new folder :-(
davidekholm

Posts: 3,431
Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 20 Nov 23, 18:28   in response to: phil44 in response to: phil44
 
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So given that you use shooting date, do you then want new folders to appear at the end?
phil44

Posts: 51
Registered: 18-Jun-2010
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 21 Nov 23, 08:36   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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Currently the behavior I'm seeing is the following:

  • Image sorting order: by shooting date, "Folders first" is checked, folder sorting order: by name
  • I click on the “New folder” button
  • the sorting of images has become "Custom", the folder sorting criteria has not changed (and is not grayed out, strange)
  • the new folder was added at the end, after the images, while "Folders first" is checked :-(
I think the following behavior would be better when creating a new folder:

  • If the images order is NOT Custom and "Folders first" is checked:
    • do not modify the image sorting parameter (after all, when "Folders first" is checked, the sorting of images is independent of the sorting of folders)
    • add the folder at the beginning while respecting the sorting of folders (by name, by date of modification, etc.)
  • Otherwise:
    • keep the current behavior (switch to Custom sorting)

Edited by: phil44 on 21 Nov 2023, 18:57 : Clarification on expected behavior
davidekholm

Posts: 3,431
Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 22 Nov 23, 19:13   in response to: phil44 in response to: phil44
 
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Thanks, but it won't be ideal if you "order by name" cause now the folder will be reordered once you've hit Enter (after entering a name). That might confuse users, don't you agree?
JeffTucker

Posts: 7,981
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 22 Nov 23, 19:49   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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Just butting in, here, but I'd like to renew my pitch for another option: Pages > Image ordering > None or Pages > Image ordering > Custom. With that default, nothing would be reordered unless the user explicitly chooses to do so. Things will stay wherever they landed when added, or wherever the user dragged them.

Then perhaps you could remove the semi-automatic switch to Custom ordering that happens now.
RobM

Posts: 3,796
Registered: 4-Aug-2006
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 22 Nov 23, 20:53   in response to: phil44 in response to: phil44
 
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As a work around you could switch to the OS Finder/Explorer and add the folder outside of jAlbum. That keeps the ordering as set and the folder appears in the correct place within jAlbum. Just an idea, you may not like that method of working either.
davidekholm

Posts: 3,431
Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 22 Nov 23, 21:11   in response to: RobM in response to: RobM
 
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RobM wrote:
As a work around you could switch to the OS Finder/Explorer and add the folder outside of jAlbum. That keeps the ordering as set and the folder appears in the correct place within jAlbum. Just an idea, you may not like that method of working either.

Yes, that's a workaround for sure. You can double-click the address bar of jAlbum to open that folder in your file explorer.
phil44

Posts: 51
Registered: 18-Jun-2010
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 23 Nov 23, 10:10   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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davidekholm wrote:
Thanks, but it won't be ideal if you "order by name" cause now the folder will be reordered once you've hit Enter (after entering a name). That might confuse users, don't you agree?
Rather, this is exactly the expected behavior. If I ask for the files to be sorted alphabetically, I don't see why a new file would not respect my request. For example, if I have the Birds and Dogs folders, why would a new folder named Cats be placed elsewhere than between Birds and Dogs??? If I wanted that, I would just have to choose the "Custom" order and it would be done, and not "Sort folders by name".

But please let me explain further.

1) Folders can only be sorted if and only if "Folders first" is checked.
2) "Folders first" can only be checked if the image order is not "Custom". Also note that when "Folders first" is checked, the folders are necessarily sorted!
3) In this case, the order of the folders is unrelated to the order of the images (you can sort the images by name and the folders by date added for example).

So, still in this case, (i.e. with "Folders first" checked), when I create a new folder:

1) I expect it to have it in the right place in the folder list
2) I expect that the order of the images will not be changed, since this order is independent.

Note that this is the normal and usual behavior that we have in Windows File Explorer.
phil44

Posts: 51
Registered: 18-Jun-2010
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 23 Nov 23, 10:12   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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davidekholm wrote:
RobM wrote:
As a work around you could switch to the OS Finder/Explorer and add the folder outside of jAlbum. That keeps the ordering as set and the folder appears in the correct place within jAlbum. Just an idea, you may not like that method of working either.

Yes, that's a workaround for sure. You can double-click the address bar of jAlbum to open that folder in your file explorer.

I didn't know that, thanks for the tip :-)

Apart from that, this solution actually gives the expected behavior (the new folder appears in the right place), but is still significantly more cumbersome than simply clicking a button.

Note that while checking this, I found a bug: with "Folders first" checked and with folders sorted by name, if you rename a folder in jAlbum, the folders are not reordered. And I don't see any way to force folder sorting in this case. On the other hand, if you rename the folder in the Windows File Explorer, the renaming is taken into account and the folders are reordered accordingly.
davidekholm

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Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 12 Dec 23, 16:04   in response to: phil44 in response to: phil44
 
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I've added an experimental solution for this now: If you create folders via the keyboard shortcut (CTRL/CMD+SHIFT+N) then no custom ordering will be set, but it will take until you do a screen refresh (F5) until the new folder is appearing in the correct ordered location. Naturally, if you reopen the project or make the gallery, the ordering will be correct.

To try the fix, ensure you run v33.3, then issue a core update (Tools->External tools->jAlbum core update). The fix is versioned v33.3.2.
phil44

Posts: 51
Registered: 18-Jun-2010
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 13 Dec 23, 18:13   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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davidekholm wrote:
I've added an experimental solution for this now: If you create folders via the keyboard shortcut (CTRL/CMD+SHIFT+N) then no custom ordering will be set, but it will take until you do a screen refresh (F5) until the new folder is appearing in the correct ordered location. Naturally, if you reopen the project or make the gallery, the ordering will be correct.

To try the fix, ensure you run v33.3, then issue a core update (Tools->External tools->jAlbum core update). The fix is versioned v33.3.2.

Thanks, David!
I did a test: this looks good to me and matches the behavior I expect. It would still be better if there was no need to refresh the view manually :-)
RobM

Posts: 3,796
Registered: 4-Aug-2006
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 13 Dec 23, 21:03   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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davidekholm wrote:
I've added an experimental solution for this now: If you create folders via the keyboard shortcut (CTRL/CMD+SHIFT+N) then no custom ordering will be set, but it will take until you do a screen refresh (F5) until the new folder is appearing in the correct ordered location. Naturally, if you reopen the project or make the gallery, the ordering will be correct.
If this is to be formally incorporated then the contextual menu for a new folder and the keyboard shortcut act differently, even though the contextual menu shows the same keyboard shortcut. Maybe removing the keyboard shortcut from the contextual menu might be an idea, personally I don't like different effects for what is apparently the same function.
phil44

Posts: 51
Registered: 18-Jun-2010
Re: Image sorting changes when you create a new folder
Posted: 13 Dec 23, 22:23   in response to: RobM in response to: RobM
 
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RobM wrote:
davidekholm wrote:
I've added an experimental solution for this now: If you create folders via the keyboard shortcut (CTRL/CMD+SHIFT+N) then no custom ordering will be set, but it will take until you do a screen refresh (F5) until the new folder is appearing in the correct ordered location. Naturally, if you reopen the project or make the gallery, the ordering will be correct.
If this is to be formally incorporated then the contextual menu for a new folder and the keyboard shortcut act differently, even though the contextual menu shows the same keyboard shortcut. Maybe removing the keyboard shortcut from the contextual menu might be an idea, personally I don't like different effects for what is apparently the same function.
I agree, consistency must prevail: an action must always be the same, regardless of the means of triggering the action.

That said, I think this experimental solution is only temporary, time to check if everything is okay.

If David thinks this change in behavior might confuse users, perhaps a preference (I know, another one...) could allow the user to choose between the original behavior and this one?
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