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RobM

Posts: 3,424
Registered: 4-Aug-2006
Re: Save the preferred language in the project file.
Posted: 17 Feb 21, 11:58   in response to: AndreWolff in response to: AndreWolff
 
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AndreWolff wrote:
davidekholm wrote:
I basically agree but given that some skins already implement language selection I though this approach is safer.
If you save the language setting independent from the used skin in a variable which is not used in a one of those skins, I think you can save the setting without problems for these skins.

Next these skins can remove the language combo-box and use your variable instead.

Sorry, but forcing skin developers to recode due to a user forgetting what they are doing is overkill.

Why not just have two batch commands to launch jAlbum, one for Dutch and the other for English? The files can be named such that you won’t forget which is which.
JeffTucker

Posts: 7,536
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Save the preferred language in the project file.
Posted: 17 Feb 21, 12:22   in response to: RobM in response to: RobM
 
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Yes, this is just a confused muddle.

First, getting rid of the HTML language setting in my skins would make it less useful. A user would not be able to create an album in Urdu, because there is no Urdu choice for the jAlbum language preference. The user shouldn't have to create a "texts" file manually, just to accomplish this. So no, this feature request will not mean that a skin should get rid of its own option.

But beyond that, consider this scenario. I launch jAlbum, and the preference is set for en. I make a MyDog album. It's in English. The project file saves the language as en. A week later, I launch jAlbum and set the preference for nl. Now, I open the saved MyDog album. Should the jAlbum language preference be forced to en, because the project was saved with that? No? Well, then, what happens if I Make Album again? Does that change the album to nl? No? Then how would I change the MyDog album to nl if I wanted to? Is it forced to remain set to en forever?

See the problem? Treating a preference setting as if it were a project setting leads you into one blind alley after another.
davidekholm

Posts: 3,494
Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Save the preferred language in the project file.
Posted: 17 Feb 21, 12:57   in response to: AndreWolff in response to: AndreWolff
 
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AndreWolff wrote:
davidekholm wrote:
I basically agree but given that some skins already implement language selection I though this approach is safer.
If you save the language setting independent from the used skin in a variable which is not used in a one of those skins, I think you can save the setting without problems for these skins.

Next these skins can remove the language combo-box and use your variable instead.


Yes, I was just thinking that this might confuse the user, but as you say, skin developers can later on delete their own language choices.

@Jeff, why would you want to present all possible languages and not just the supported ones in the language list? Is it to signal what language titles, descriptions and comments are written in?
JeffTucker

Posts: 7,536
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Save the preferred language in the project file.
Posted: 17 Feb 21, 13:05   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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The HTML standard strongly recommends including an indication of the predominant language of the page, including things like titles, comments, captions, and so on. The language of the tooltips is of so little importance, it's almost irrelevant. The content is what matters.

And what are the "supported" languages? The jAlbum core has 35 languages. But Tiger has only 14, and almost all of those haven't been updated in so long, they're completely useless.

This is why I don't use the "texts" files mechanism at all. It's unworkable unless you have a staff of translators who can take care of every new release of every skin, as well as the core, and can create complete sets of new language files to expand beyond the existing 35.

And sending hapless users into manual editing of files that are disorganized and loaded with obscure field name variables is unforgivable.
AndreWolff

Posts: 1,916
Registered: 14-Dec-2007
Re: Save the preferred language in the project file.
Posted: 17 Feb 21, 13:14   in response to: RobM in response to: RobM
 
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RobM wrote:
Sorry, but forcing skin developers to recode due to a user forgetting what they are doing is overkill.
Skin developers don’t need to recode the skin, they can still use their own language combobox.
RobM

Posts: 3,424
Registered: 4-Aug-2006
Re: Save the preferred language in the project file.
Posted: 17 Feb 21, 13:16   in response to: AndreWolff in response to: AndreWolff
 
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AndreWolff wrote:
RobM wrote:
Sorry, but forcing skin developers to recode due to a user forgetting what they are doing is overkill.
Skin developers don’t need to recode the skin, they can still use their own language combobox.
But what is wrong with having two startup files?
davidekholm

Posts: 3,494
Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Save the preferred language in the project file.
Posted: 17 Feb 21, 13:17   in response to: AndreWolff in response to: AndreWolff
 
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Thanks for explaining Jeff. Well, should I include a language combobox under Settings->Pages or simply leave this to the skins?
JeffTucker

Posts: 7,536
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Save the preferred language in the project file.
Posted: 17 Feb 21, 13:27   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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I would just leave it to the skins.

The basic design mistake was made about, what, 15 years ago? You're trying to use one language setting to handle both the UI and the output. The UI side, if you count all of the skin field labels, has scores, or even hundreds of entries. For a skin, that's a maintenance nightmare. So, I just don't do it. Someone who has trouble understanding the UI can pull up my online user's manual pages and let Google translate them.

The output side, on the other hand, has only a handful of entries. It's just things like the tooltips for "Next image" or "Download video." In my skins, I can usually put them all on a single panel. No reason to send the user down the rabbit hole of the "texts" files. And if he wants to create an album in which everything - tooltips, captions, etc. - is in Chechen, he can do so, with less than 60 seconds work.
AndreWolff

Posts: 1,916
Registered: 14-Dec-2007
Re: Save the preferred language in the project file.
Posted: 17 Feb 21, 13:29   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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davidekholm wrote:
Well, should I include a language combobox under Settings->Pages or simply leave this to the skins?
You make it complicated for the user: A language combobox under Preferences, under Pages and a 3th one in some skins!
Please offer just the current Preferences language box and extends it if required with a possible edit field for more language codes.
JeffTucker

Posts: 7,536
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Save the preferred language in the project file.
Posted: 17 Feb 21, 13:34   in response to: AndreWolff in response to: AndreWolff
 
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But how should it handle the scenario I described above, in which an album is made with en, but you have now changed the preference to nl? If the album is going to be made with whatever the current preference is set to, what's the purpose of saving the setting in the project file? But if the album is going to retain its original language setting, how would you ever change it to something else?
davidekholm

Posts: 3,494
Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Save the preferred language in the project file.
Posted: 17 Feb 21, 13:35   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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I'm not talking about having the users mess with the texts.properties files, simply to allow per-project language settings.
davidekholm

Posts: 3,494
Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Save the preferred language in the project file.
Posted: 17 Feb 21, 13:37   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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The default setting for this new proposed combo box is to follow the preference language. That way we won't break/affect existing projects, BUT a project that wishes to have a fixed language, that's perhaps different to the preference language could then set another language in this combo box. With this approach, all skins automatically benefit from this.
JeffTucker

Posts: 7,536
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Save the preferred language in the project file.
Posted: 17 Feb 21, 13:40   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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davidekholm wrote:
I'm not talking about having the users mess with the texts.properties files, simply to allow per-project language settings.

OK, so I want to create a Tiger album in Chechen. How do I do that? I can set the new per-project language setting to ce. But all of the tooltips in the album are still in English. How do I change those?
davidekholm

Posts: 3,494
Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Save the preferred language in the project file.
Posted: 17 Feb 21, 13:48   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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JeffTucker wrote:
davidekholm wrote:
I'm not talking about having the users mess with the texts.properties files, simply to allow per-project language settings.

OK, so I want to create a Tiger album in Chechen. How do I do that? I can set the new per-project language setting to ce. But all of the tooltips in the album are still in English. How do I change those?


Well, to also get unsupported tool-tips translated, then you'd need to edit these text files, but we're not talking about that scenario.
JeffTucker

Posts: 7,536
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Save the preferred language in the project file.
Posted: 17 Feb 21, 14:30   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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davidekholm wrote:
....simply to allow per-project language settings.

Do what you like, but please don't call the variable htmlLanguage. That's what I'm using, in all my skins.
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