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MarkusD

Posts: 529
Registered: 13-Apr-2006
Overall setting for sizes
Posted: 25-Jun-2020 20:22
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My impression is, that most users of jAlbum just install the application, maybe choose another skin, put the pictures in a new album, compile the album, upload it, and that's it. Only us „nerds“ fiddle around with all of these dozens and dozens of options in the core and skin sections. Isn't it? So, it is very important, that the default options which will define the size of thumbs and pictures are well choosen.

In my opinion the default values for all these parameters are way to small for todays screens and bandwidth. The screenshots in this folder show all options which - in my opinion - have an impact to the size of the generated album. And speaking for myself, it's not easy to tell which of all these different kind of options will take effect in the created album. So if you change one option and leave all other options untouched it may result in an totally unproportioned album. So my thought is, that there is an overall setting where an album created just chooses from an range of values „S“, „M“, „L“, „XL“, „XXL“. Assuming that this size model is know all over the world.

So what ever the album creator chooses, all of the options which are related to size and proportion will change accordingly. So choosing „S“ will result in very small thumbs and pictures, maybe only one or two page columns, a border width of 5 pixels for the lightbox, 100/80/40 for the „Height“, „Height on subfolders“ and „Height on Pages“ for the hero panel and so on and so on.

Link to the album with screenshots.

Just a thought. What do you think?
RobM

Posts: 3,266
Registered: 4-Aug-2006
Re: Overall setting for sizes
Posted: 25-Jun-2020 20:34   in response to: MarkusD in response to: MarkusD
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It seems you really want a menu, like a recipe list, to choose from, to give predefined looks, not just styles. Something like a pick list of default Settings to quickly set things up a particular way.

Of course, with responsive designs those menu choices might not be relevant for different display/browser sizes.

But you could save default sets yourself and load them as needed.
MarkusD

Posts: 529
Registered: 13-Apr-2006
Re: Overall setting for sizes
Posted: 25-Jun-2020 20:50   in response to: RobM in response to: RobM
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No, Rob, please understand my dilemma. My artistic abilities are on a scale from 10 (very good) to 1 (very bad) pretty much zero. I lack any sense of how to balance all the above options. And the skin developer knows best how all options together produce a good result. So my wish is that I choose from the presets "S", "M", "L", "XL", "XXL" and the skin converts this into harmonic and coherent options. ;-)
RobM

Posts: 3,266
Registered: 4-Aug-2006
Re: Overall setting for sizes
Posted: 25-Jun-2020 21:06   in response to: MarkusD in response to: MarkusD
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MarkusD wrote:
... And the skin developer knows best how all options together produce a good result. So my wish is that I choose from the presets "S", "M", "L", "XL", "XXL" and the skin converts this into harmonic and coherent options. ;-)
Your faith in skin developers artistic flair is admirable, but misplaced. ;)

jGromit has removed options in some of his skins, to stop users picking bad combinations. But look how often requests come in to override what the skin developers have designed!
davidekholm

Posts: 3,322
Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Overall setting for sizes
Posted: 25-Jun-2020 22:11   in response to: RobM in response to: RobM
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I've designed the "Styles" concept of jAlbum to actually cater for this. "Styles" in jAlbum is not just about style sheet variations, they actually allow the skin developer to adjust any number of settings in a coherent way (through the use of style-specific hints files), so let's encourage skin developers to create a suite of size focused styles!
MarkusD

Posts: 529
Registered: 13-Apr-2006
Re: Overall setting for sizes
Posted: 28-Jun-2020 19:23   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
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davidekholm wrote:
I've designed the "Styles" concept of jAlbum to actually cater for this. "Styles" in jAlbum is not just about style sheet variations, they actually allow the skin developer to adjust any number of settings in a coherent way (through the use of style-specific hints files), so let's encourage skin developers to create a suite of size focused styles!
Well, I am very curious what Laza can tinker with functionality in the case of the Tiger skin. I would be very happy if we, as users of jAlbum or the Tiger skin, would get a corresponding function here. Thank you.
AndreWolff

Posts: 1,769
Registered: 14-Dec-2007
Re: Overall setting for sizes
Posted: 28-Jun-2020 21:20   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
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davidekholm wrote:
I've designed the "Styles" concept of jAlbum to actually cater for this. "Styles" in jAlbum is not just about style sheet variations, they actually allow the skin developer to adjust any number of settings in a coherent way (through the use of style-specific hints files), so let's encourage skin developers to create a suite of size focused styles!
I must confess that I haven't changed anything on the styles sheets of my skins in years, although a lot of extensions has been implemented in these years. It would help of course if you supply the documentation / recipe and / or batch programs to make more styles!

And it would help if jAlbum would implement more usefully feature requests like various sets of images and more userfriendly handling of the theme image.
JeffTucker

Posts: 6,979
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Overall setting for sizes
Posted: 28-Jun-2020 23:13   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
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davidekholm wrote:
... so let's encourage skin developers to create a suite of size focused styles!

I have to confess that I don't understand the requirement this is designed to fulfill. Would you want to make a "small" album, targeted specifically at phone users, for example? How would you steer those users to it? Would you also make a "large" album for the 24" monitors, and an "extra large" album for the 30" monitors? How would you keep tablet users away from those? Having written some of those steering scripts back in the bad old days before responsive layouts, I can heartily not recommend doing that! The maintenance overhead is a killer.

Many of my skins already address things like borders - on a small display, the script strips off the borders (or reduces them to only 2px or so), so that the thumbnails and slide images are given as much screen real estate as possible.

And of course, if you get rid of all the frippery in the first place, you don't have a problem. Dump all the boxes, borders, shadows, and other intrusive design elements from the get-go, and you have an album that shows well on any device.

When it comes to different image sizes, that's simply a non-issue these days. Make your images large enough to work well on a 1080p monitor, and you've got about 98% of the visitors taken care of. Images load as quickly on my phone as they do on my desktop. Most phone users are probably on WiFi rather than the cell network, but even the cell network is getting fast enough that you can't tell the difference, and unlimited data plans are becoming common.

Any skin developer who wants to use the creaky old srcset routines is welcome to do so - the skin can generate its own multiple image sets with a dozen lines of code. Of course, a lot of the responsive image scripts (Floatbox, FancyBox, PhotoSwipe, Highslide JS, etc.) don't support srcset - the skin developer would almost have to write his own lightbox script. Not going there, thank you!
AndreWolff

Posts: 1,769
Registered: 14-Dec-2007
Re: Overall setting for sizes
Posted: 29-Jun-2020 09:08   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
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jGromit wrote:
davidekholm wrote:
... so let's encourage skin developers to create a suite of size focused styles!

I have to confess that I don't understand the requirement this is designed to fulfill. Would you want to make a "small" album, targeted specifically at phone users, for example? How would you steer those users to it? Would you also make a "large" album for the 24" monitors, and an "extra large" album for the 30" monitors? How would you keep tablet users away from those? Having written some of those steering scripts back in the bad old days before responsive layouts, I can heartily not recommend doing that! The maintenance overhead is a killer.

I agree with you, but with srcsets this is not a problem.
jGromit wrote:
Of course, a lot of the responsive image scripts (Floatbox, FancyBox, PhotoSwipe, Highslide JS, etc.) don't support srcset - the skin developer would almost have to write his own lightbox script.
Incorrect, both PhotoSwipe (see https://photoswipe.com/documentation/responsive-images.html) and FancyBox (see https://fancyapps.com/fancybox/3/docs/) do support srcset.

Both lightboxes are supported by my skins, that is the reason that I ask in this thread for multiple sets of images.

Edited by: RobM on 29-Jun-2020 11:18
Fixed link ‘in this thread’ which had a control character at the end.
JeffTucker

Posts: 6,979
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Overall setting for sizes
Posted: 29-Jun-2020 14:01   in response to: AndreWolff in response to: AndreWolff
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AndreWolff wrote:
I agree with you, but with srcsets this is not a problem.

With responsive images, there is no problem that needs to be solved.


Have you actually read that page? The first line says, "PhotoSwipe does not support <picture> or srcset...." It lays out another technique for using multiple images, but you'd have to do some fancy footwork.

...and FancyBox (see https://fancyapps.com/fancybox/3/docs/) do support srcset.

It looks like FancyBox finally got that working. There are numerous posts out there indicating that in earlier versions, it was broken, and the developer wasn't sure he was going to be able to fix it.

But this is all irrelevant. If you want to use multiple images, go ahead and do so. David has handed you the code on a platter - use it!

(For those watching from the cheap seats, these days the need for images in multiple resolutions is rapidly disappearing - bandwidth keeps getting better. On top of that, the pixel density on small devices keeps increasing, so you really don't want to provide them with lower resolution images. In that respect, srcset is "a solution in search of a problem." It is used on some sites, but usually to address artistic goals, rather than technical ones. For example, a page might use a landscape image on large devices, but switch to a similar image, but one cropped to a suitable portrait orientation, or one that's cropped more tightly on the people in the image, on small devices. Different application of the technology entirely and not of much use to jAlbum users.)
AndreWolff

Posts: 1,769
Registered: 14-Dec-2007
Re: Overall setting for sizes
Posted: 29-Jun-2020 14:21   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
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jGromit wrote:
Have you actually read that page? The first line says, "PhotoSwipe does not support <picture> or srcset...." It lays out another technique for using multiple images, but you'd have to do some fancy footwork.
You should read a few more lines:
PhotoSwipe does not support <picture> or srcset, as it requires defined image dimensions and uses lazy-loading. But as images are loaded dynamically, it's quite easy to switch sources, even in old browsers that don't support srcset.
 
Let's assume that you have just "medium" images and "original" ("large") images. First of all, you need to store path and size of the image in slide object, for example like so:
 
var items = [
 
    // Slide 1
    {
        mediumImage: {
            src: 'path/to/medium-image-1.jpg',
            w:800,
            h:600
        },
        originalImage: {
            src: 'path/to/large-image-1.jpg',
            w: 1400,
            h: 1050
        }
    },

That works I did test that.
JeffTucker

Posts: 6,979
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Overall setting for sizes
Posted: 29-Jun-2020 14:25   in response to: AndreWolff in response to: AndreWolff
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AndreWolff wrote:
That works I did test that.

And you found that the effect was minimal, so you decided not to implement it in your skin.

If you want to implement it, go ahead and do so. There is nothing preventing you from doing that.
MarkusD

Posts: 529
Registered: 13-Apr-2006
Re: Overall setting for sizes
Posted: 29-Jun-2020 18:37   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
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What a mess I made in there. My goal is that not the user who is looking at a finished album can choose between different sized pictures. My aim is that I, as the creator of the album, can say that the size of the actual pictures, the thumbnails, the frame sizes, etc. are in a reasonable proportion. And since Skin Tiger has a lot of parameters that influence each other, it was my idea as album creator to only choose how the size ratio should be. So I'm just picking and choosing:
"S", "M", "L", "XL", "XXL"

And then all parameters are set once with correspondingly suitable values. Of course I can still manually adjust each parameter at any time. But first I have a set of coherent values.

I could imagine that only few users of such a complex skin like Tiger are able to know all parameters so well that they know how they influence each other.
JeffTucker

Posts: 6,979
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Overall setting for sizes
Posted: 29-Jun-2020 19:30   in response to: MarkusD in response to: MarkusD
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MarkusD wrote:
My goal is that not the user who is looking at a finished album can choose between different sized pictures.

I don't think I've ever looked at a web photo album and thought, "I wish I could make these pictures smaller."
MarkusD

Posts: 529
Registered: 13-Apr-2006
Re: Overall setting for sizes
Posted: 29-Jun-2020 19:38   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
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jGromit wrote:
MarkusD wrote:
My goal is that not the user who is looking at a finished album can choose between different sized pictures.

I don't think I've ever looked at a web photo album and thought, "I wish I could make these pictures smaller."

It's a pity, I couldn't make clear what I want. No, I don't want that the user of the album can change anything. But I don't give to try another phrasing. ;-)
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