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AndreWolff

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Registered: 14-Dec-2007
Allow jAlbum to work with standard DNG RAW files.
Posted: 19 Jun 14, 14:31
 
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It would be nice if I could import the DNG files made by Adobe Lightroom 5.
This saves time and disk space because I don't have to export the images to jpg files and I don't loose quality by the extra conversion step to jpg-files.
davidekholm

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Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Allow jAlbum to work with standard DNG RAW files.
Posted: 23 Jun 14, 17:02   in response to: AndreWolff in response to: AndreWolff
 
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AndreWolff wrote:
It would be nice if I could import the DNG files made by Adobe Lightroom 5.
This saves time and disk space because I don't have to export the images to jpg files and I don't loose quality by the extra conversion step to jpg-files.

I agree this would be a very good addition to jAlbum. We're however a very small team and can't focus on implementing Java support for reading DNG files ourselves. However, if there is a Java implementation for reading DNG files out there, we can look into incorporating it into jAlbum. Do some googling on DNG and Java and see if you can come up with a library that we can use.
davidekholm

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Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Allow jAlbum to work with standard DNG RAW files.
Posted: 23 Jun 14, 17:03   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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I can add that jAlbum uses the standardized "Image IO" API for image processing, so if any 3:rd party vendor makes an Image IO compatible DNG reader, then jAlbum should be able to use it "out of the box"
AndreWolff

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Registered: 14-Dec-2007
Re: Allow jAlbum to work with standard DNG RAW files.
Posted: 24 Jun 14, 15:17   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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Sounds good David! I just decided to switch to Ligthroom 5 for processing my pictures, so I am ready to test the implementation of a DNG jAlbum!
davidekholm

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Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Allow jAlbum to work with standard DNG RAW files.
Posted: 24 Jun 14, 15:34   in response to: AndreWolff in response to: AndreWolff
 
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AndreWolff wrote:
Sounds good David! I just decided to switch to Ligthroom 5 for processing my pictures, so I am ready to test the implementation of a DNG jAlbum!

As soon as you spot an "Image IO" compatible DNG reader, let us know!
AndreWolff

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Registered: 14-Dec-2007
Re: Allow jAlbum to work with standard DNG RAW files.
Posted: 24 Jun 14, 15:48   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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davidekholm wrote:
Do some googling on DNG and Java and see if you can come up with a library that we can use.

I found http://jrawio.rawdarkroom.org and https://java.net/projects/jrawio but I can't see whether DNG is supported!
davidekholm

Posts: 3,765
Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Allow jAlbum to work with standard DNG RAW files.
Posted: 25 Jun 14, 12:24   in response to: AndreWolff in response to: AndreWolff
 
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AndreWolff wrote:
davidekholm wrote:
Do some googling on DNG and Java and see if you can come up with a library that we can use.

I found http://jrawio.rawdarkroom.org and https://java.net/projects/jrawio but I can't see whether DNG is supported!


I downloaded and unzipped the JRawIO project into jAlbum's "lib" folder and restarted jAlbum. I then dropped a DNG file onto jAlbum, and it was accepted fine, although I'd personally prefer some more punch to the colors. Try it yourself! Perhaps you can encourage the JRawIO people to fine tune this reader a bit?
fabriziogiudici

Posts: 5
Registered: 5-Feb-2006
Re: Allow jAlbum to work with standard DNG RAW files.
Posted: 27 Jun 14, 13:11   in response to: AndreWolff in response to: AndreWolff
 
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Dear all,

I'm Fabrizio Giudici, the creator of the project jrawio. David wrote me and pointed to this thread.

Actualy the jrawio project does support DNG, as long as some other RAW formats. The development was frozen a few years ago, because while I'm able to deal with the technical details about how to decode the files, I'm not an expert in imaging - hence the unsatisfactory results in colour rendition. At the time, I hoped to be able to attract a few more people to the project (the project is FLOSS, free/libre and open-source) with the missing technical competence, but I failed. That's why the project was frozen.

But if there's interest, I can resume it with no problems. I'd focus on the DNG support only, at least for starting, and avoid dispersing energies (but, of course, if somebody is willing to participate in the support of other formats, I'd be available).

There's a number of things that must be decided about how to support DNG, since it's not a format such as TIFF and JPEG, where the decoded image is ready to be rendered as is; "more punch" to colours might mean different things to different users; in other words, I think it is necessary to define a workflow, and then we can try to support it.

That's all. If there's people willing to donate some time to the project, I'd be happy to resume development. Let me know!

Edited by: fabriziogiudici on 27-Jun-2014 13:11
fabriziogiudici

Posts: 5
Registered: 5-Feb-2006
Re: Allow jAlbum to work with standard DNG RAW files.
Posted: 27 Jun 14, 13:15   in response to: AndreWolff in response to: AndreWolff
 
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PS You can find some old discussion about this in a previous forum post of 2006:

http://jalbum.net/forum/thread.jspa?threadID=7741&start=0&tstart=0
davidekholm

Posts: 3,765
Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Allow jAlbum to work with standard DNG RAW files.
Posted: 30 Jun 14, 12:36   in response to: fabriziogiudici in response to: fabriziogiudici
 
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Thanks for posting here Fabrizio! I hope we hear from the original poster now. Until he returns, just compare how Picasa handles some DNG images. Try to mimic the color saturation.
AndreWolff

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Registered: 14-Dec-2007
Re: Allow jAlbum to work with standard DNG RAW files.
Posted: 30 Jun 14, 19:06   in response to: davidekholm in response to: davidekholm
 
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davidekholm wrote:
I downloaded and unzipped the JRawIO project into jAlbum's "lib" folder and restarted jAlbum. I then dropped a DNG file onto jAlbum, and it was accepted fine, although I'd personally prefer some more punch to the colors. Try it yourself! Perhaps you can encourage the JRawIO people to fine tune this reader a bit?

Yest David I like to test that, but please give the link to the file you use in the Lib folder.
AndreWolff

Posts: 2,083
Registered: 14-Dec-2007
Re: Allow jAlbum to work with standard DNG RAW files.
Posted: 30 Jun 14, 19:22   in response to: fabriziogiudici in response to: fabriziogiudici
 
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fabriziogiudici wrote:
But if there's interest, I can resume it with no problems. I'd focus on the DNG support only, at least for starting, and avoid dispersing energies (but, of course, if somebody is willing to participate in the support of other formats, I'd be available).

Thanks for your efforts Fabrizio. I am using Sony and Olympus Camera's, but I convert these RAW files always to the DNG format in the Lightroom 5 program. I hope that I can test the DNG files in jAlbum with help of your software.
I think Lightroom 5 is the standard, so the colors of the DNG pictures in jAlbum should match the colors of the same picture in Lightroom as close as possible.

For your information, I use DNG files as input for the panorama stiching program Autopano Pro, which produces an JPEG output file. And indeed if I look at this file in Autopano Pro, it seems as if the Ligthroom corrections are not included in the stitched image. But if I open the JPEG panorama in Lightroom 5, the image is as expected: the Ligthroom 5 corrections are included!
alan927

Posts: 41
Registered: 18-Jun-2005
Re: Allow jAlbum to work with standard DNG RAW files.
Posted: 1 Jul 14, 02:29   in response to: AndreWolff in response to: AndreWolff
 
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Adobe DNG is itself a RAW format, so when you're converting from your camera's proprietary RAW format to DNG I wouldn't expect any of your Lightroom changes to be included. For your particular use case, you should probably be saving to TIF/TIFF instead of DNG so the changes are saved and the file is still uncompressed, eliminating any data loss.
fabriziogiudici

Posts: 5
Registered: 5-Feb-2006
Re: Allow jAlbum to work with standard DNG RAW files.
Posted: 1 Jul 14, 07:33   in response to: alan927 in response to: alan927
 
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I'm not sure. Here Adobe says:
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/creativesuite/cs/using/WSCA4C914B-B11F-46c6-ACE5-42F36ED1C7BC.html#WSA743BAAF-3A14-4ecf-8F7E-E2F8CF7CF3DF

When a camera raw image file is processed with Camera Raw, the image settings are stored in one of two places: the Camera Raw database file or a sidecar XMP file. When a DNG file is processed in Camera Raw, the settings are stored in the DNG file itself, but they can be stored in a sidecar XMP file instead. Settings for TIFF and JPEG files are always stored in the file itself.

But perhaps the option of store the things in the DNG is for Camera Raw only, not LR.
We should try. If DNG doesn't contain LR processing data, we have a problem because I will be unable to render the photo as you see it in LR, with the processing applied. The workaround could be to export the XMP sidecar too. Not that matching colour rendition would be easy: everything impacts colour rendition, such as saturation, vibrance, contrast, clarity, and it's not easy to guess how the numeric values in the slider translate to a mathematical formula to apply to pixels. This is the area where I need some advice from an expert.

Edited by: fabriziogiudici on 01-Jul-2014 07:33
davidekholm

Posts: 3,765
Registered: 18-Oct-2002
Re: Allow jAlbum to work with standard DNG RAW files.
Posted: 1 Jul 14, 17:15   in response to: AndreWolff in response to: AndreWolff
 
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AndreWolff wrote:
Yest David I like to test that, but please give the link to the file you use in the Lib folder.

Just get the file from http://jrawio.rawdarkroom.org/download/ and unzip to jAlbum's lib folder.
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