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jimberry

Posts: 581
Registered: 30-Aug-2004
Re: Displaying Problems with PDF in Jupiter
Posted: 27 Nov 21, 08:12   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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I was not suggesting header.inc should be included in the JPG or PDF pages ;)

That method of including navigation is possibly a non-sequitur. I was responding to your "Some visitors will then be very puzzled about how to get back to the album", so perhaps I should not have added that suggestion.

I think replacing the PDF with an HTML version would allow the pages to be made more responsive than JPG or PDF, regardless of whether (or how) navigation is included.
John-Simpson

Posts: 130
Registered: 15-Jan-2008
Re: Displaying Problems with PDF in Jupiter
Posted: 27 Nov 21, 12:22   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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JeffTucker wrote:

John likes opening the PDF raw, in the browser, without giving any space to skin page content, like navigation. I think that's a bad idea from the perspective of the site visitor. Granted, it allows the maximum space to view the PDF, but you could say the same thing about JPG's. Why not open those raw in a new browser tab? That would get rid of all those pesky navigation arrows and captions!

Actually, I really like your navigation, but it doesn't always suit the many and varied shapes of PDF that there can be. Most of them are okay although being booklets they suit PDF rather than HTML or JPEG. The text is not searchable in HTML (as far as I know) and for the PDF I have often OCR - retyped. I recently discovered how to create OCR + images in PDF but the accuracy of the OCR is hit and miss.

It may be useful to see my PDFs on one of my websites:

http://www.st-reunited.org.uk/History/PDF_Leaflets/index.html

Interestingly, the only image (recently) added to the folder became the default favourite photo for the folder thumbnail and the header photo. (banner)
JeffTucker

Posts: 8,158
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Displaying Problems with PDF in Jupiter
Posted: 27 Nov 21, 13:40   in response to: John-Simpson in response to: John-Simpson
 
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John-Simpson wrote:
The text is not searchable in HTML...

In Firefox, click the little magnifying glass in the upper left of the PDF viewer, or hit CTRL-F. In Chrome, just CTRL-F - there doesn't seem to be a menu item for searching.

ETA: And don't forget, in both Chrome and Firefox, the built-in PDF viewer offers a download option for the document. The visitor always has the option of downloading the whole thing, at which point he can do whatever he likes with it.
John-Simpson

Posts: 130
Registered: 15-Jan-2008
Re: Displaying Problems with PDF in Jupiter
Posted: 27 Nov 21, 18:15   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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JeffTucker wrote:

In Firefox, click the little magnifying glass in the upper left of the PDF viewer, or hit CTRL-F. In Chrome, just CTRL-F - there doesn't seem to be a menu item for searching.


I was referring to just an ordinary jpeg image of text loaded up in either HTML or saved as PDF. Neither will respond to FIND. (BTW - I use CTRL-F all the time!) Also, web search engines won't find image text either! For that to happen in PDF it has to be scanned and saved as a searchable PDF. I'm not very knowledgeable about this, but I assume that each OCR word is located on a page by its coordinates. I find that where scanned text is not very clear on old documents then the resultant OCR output is just gobbledegook!

For example, this is page is text and I've done an OCR and put it in the jAlbum description. Not really very good because there is a lot of text. I would have been better to convert it to a searchable PDF, but I didn't know how to do it then!

http://www.st-reunited.org.uk/History/Derby%20Sewage%20Works/slides/Derby-Sewage-Works%20-Visit1915.html

Edited by: John-Simpson on 27 Nov 2021, 17:15

Edited by: John-Simpson on 27 Nov 2021, 17:17
JeffTucker

Posts: 8,158
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Displaying Problems with PDF in Jupiter
Posted: 27 Nov 21, 18:22   in response to: John-Simpson in response to: John-Simpson
 
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Yes, if you've scanned it yourself, it's basically just a picture of a document, even though it's a PDF. There are online services that will attempt to produce a "searchable" PDF. Don't know if they're any good, but here's the first one I stumbled on by doing a search:

https://www.pdf2go.com/create-searchable-pdf
John-Simpson

Posts: 130
Registered: 15-Jan-2008
Re: Displaying Problems with PDF in Jupiter
Posted: 27 Nov 21, 19:05   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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Thanks Jeff. I've just tried it and uploaded the result as a PDF next to the image of the same text.

http://st-reunited.org.uk/History/Derby%20Sewage%20Works/index.html

It didn't pick the old English handwriting, but that is to be expected. The rest of it may be okay, but there isn't an easy way of checking the hidden OCR. (that I know about) On the penultimate line, 'cost' looks like 'cust' and was OCR'd as 'cust'. If that is the only one then I'm impressed and it is another useful tool. I may get some advertising sent my way as is normal with 'free' Apps.

Thanks once again. I'll be trying out my other text-rich images and converting them to searchable PDF.

JeffTucker

Posts: 8,158
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Displaying Problems with PDF in Jupiter
Posted: 4 Dec 21, 00:51   in response to: John-Simpson in response to: John-Simpson
 
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Attachment ss009575.png (496.8 KB)
After letting this percolate for a few days, some quick skin changes produced this:

https://jefftucker.jalbum.net/pdfAR/

The first object is just a regular JPG. The second is a PDF for which I've told the skin the aspect ratio (H/W) is 0.55, so the PDF is shown as wide as the image bounds permit. The third is a PDF for which I've told the skin the aspect ratio is 1.25, so that entire pages are visible. It's a setting in Edit mode - see screenshot.

It's the sort of thing you end up having to tinker with a bit, since the A/R also involves things like borders. I'll mull over how to make it a bit more robust, but since the PDF has no "native" dimensions that the skin can detect, it may always remain something you have to fiddle with to get the best result.
John-Simpson

Posts: 130
Registered: 15-Jan-2008
Re: Displaying Problems with PDF in Jupiter
Posted: 4 Dec 21, 12:17   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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I little bit of percolation seems to work well. :) Thanks. I'll look forward to trying it out with my own album when you have finalised the design. I don't suppose there are many other people that use jAlbum to display technical information, so I'm grateful for your efforts for me, a minority - maybe of 1!

What impressed me with your second 'object' was the ability to zoom in so I could read the print. On my PC screen it comes in at 33%, but tap up the magnification and I can read all the small print. eg 'Val Pruna' caught my eye!

This brings me on to another question about magnification and images that I shall post separately to this one.

BTW - I have seen some PDFs that have changing aspect ratios. i.e. a mixture of A4 portrait and landscape. I think that this practice is not good and there is nothing that we can do to display this mixed ratio in a single PDF, because no one setting will be correct!
JeffTucker

Posts: 8,158
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Displaying Problems with PDF in Jupiter
Posted: 4 Dec 21, 14:30   in response to: John-Simpson in response to: John-Simpson
 
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John-Simpson wrote:
What impressed me with your second 'object' was the ability to zoom in so I could read the print. On my PC screen it comes in at 33%, but tap up the magnification and I can read all the small print. eg 'Val Pruna' caught my eye!

And that's not a very good example, since that wasn't created as a PDF. Things that are properly "authored" with PDF creation software can preserve a lot more detail than a regular image can.

This brings me on to another question about magnification and images that I shall post separately to this one.

I suspect that I know where you're going with that. Let me just say that Mirage incorporates Zoomify. No other skin does, because the images have to be "prepped" to support the script, and the jAlbum core doesn't take care of it. Lots of overhead. Most skins do, at least, support Link to originals via scaled images, so the visitor can download the full-sized original and pan around it to see the details.

BTW - I have seen some PDFs that have changing aspect ratios. i.e. a mixture of A4 portrait and landscape. I think that this practice is not good and there is nothing that we can do to display this mixed ratio in a single PDF, because no one setting will be correct!

Yes, I've hit a few of those, particularly with things like user's manuals for oddball items, like a $9 digital watch. Strictly amateur hour, and usually from somewhere like Malaysia. An A/R of 1.0 is the best you can do in that case.
JeffTucker

Posts: 8,158
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Displaying Problems with PDF in Jupiter
Posted: 4 Dec 21, 16:57   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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Jupiter 45 now released.

ETA: Temporarily removed. I think I want to reverse the aspect ratio designation, i.e., make it width/height, which is more standard.

Edited by: JeffTucker on 4 Dec 2021, 12:12
John-Simpson

Posts: 130
Registered: 15-Jan-2008
Re: Displaying Problems with PDF in Jupiter
Posted: 4 Dec 21, 18:37   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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JeffTucker wrote:
Jupiter 45 now released.

ETA: Temporarily removed. I think I want to reverse the aspect ratio designation, i.e., make it width/height, which is more standard.

Edited by: JeffTucker on 4 Dec 2021, 12:12


I've tried it and you are probably correct about the designation H/W vs W/H. I got it wrong twice! I've changed the ratio on a couple of my none standard size PDFs as a test. I conclude that a landscape PDF window is best so that you can read the lines of text without scrolling sideways (horizontally). Using the mouse wheel to move up and down the page is fine, because it is what you do with a multipage booklet anyway! (Vertical Scroll)

I think we can say that the PDF viewer will only be used on PC screens which are almost always landscape.

I await your modification.

BTW - you were correct about my magnification question about images. I've looked at Mirage. It has some good points. I quite like the panorama feature.
JeffTucker

Posts: 8,158
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Displaying Problems with PDF in Jupiter
Posted: 4 Dec 21, 21:02   in response to: John-Simpson in response to: John-Simpson
 
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OK, revised Jupiter 45 uploaded, with a more standard notion of "aspect ratio."

There are still some "ragged edges," primarily because the browsers' PDF viewers insist upon doing me various favors. Chrome, for example, doesn't properly account for the space consumed by its own tool bar.

I can't fight my way around those little issues, but this gives you at least some control over the display aspect ratio.
JeffTucker

Posts: 8,158
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Displaying Problems with PDF in Jupiter
Posted: 4 Dec 21, 21:38   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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Withdrawn again - still buggy. I swear, when I get away from this stuff for a couple of months, it takes me days to get back into the swing of things....
JeffTucker

Posts: 8,158
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Displaying Problems with PDF in Jupiter
Posted: 4 Dec 21, 22:04   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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OK, this time for sure. ;)

Is it too early to hit the Lagavulin 16?
John-Simpson

Posts: 130
Registered: 15-Jan-2008
Re: Displaying Problems with PDF in Jupiter
Posted: 6 Dec 21, 14:30   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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Thanks - that works. I've tweaked my PDFs generally to 1.10 and wider ones to 1.50.

This displays much better on Widescreen Monitors.

I hope you enjoyed your 16 Year Old Single Malt Scotch Whisky last night! (surely not before 6 pm!)

Having mulled it over for a bit, seeing that your PDF viewer only works on a PC, why can't we jump out of responsive mode and let it default to the maximum width of the viewer's window within the website and no vertical restraint? (vertical is always scrollable) This is how PDFs behave when you download them and open them in a browser. You will no doubt give me 101 reasons it can't be done/isn't wise!

Otherwise, given time and effort restraints I am very happy with what you have done :)
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