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jret

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Registered: 5-Mar-2009
Neptune: question about separate section for folder thumbnails
Posted: 24-Mar-2020 04:26
 
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When the separate section for folder thumbnails is checked, is it possible to force the folder to display last, after the image thumbnails? If so, how?

I'm enjoying the transition from Matrix --> Gromit --> Neptune including several features that I had not previously used, including the separate section for folder thumbnails. Having the folder thumbnails display first is logical and what I prefer; however, I have one section of one site where it makes more sense to have the folder thumbnail display last. The need occurs several times and it's always one folder only. If possible it would be a better solution to have that single, larger folder appear below the image thumbnails. Thanks.
JeffTucker

Posts: 6,893
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Neptune: question about separate section for folder thumbnails
Posted: 24-Mar-2020 05:06   in response to: jret in response to: jret
 
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Attachment sectionmove1.png (47,7 KB)
Attachment sectionmove2.png (48,2 KB)
There's no automatic way to do it. Even if the skin had an option to put the folder(s) below the image thumbnails, it would apply to the entire project.

Ordinarily I tell people never to edit the finished pages, but that's the only way to make this work the way you want. Just remember that you would have to do this every time you make the album.

In short, what you need to do is move the folder section from before the images section, to after it. The exact page coding depends on whether you're using fixed-shape thumbnails or not, but the mechanics are the same in either case. In the attached screenshots, you would move the highlighted code section to the spot shown by the red arrow.
jret

Posts: 76
Registered: 5-Mar-2009
Re: Neptune: question about separate section for folder thumbnails
Posted: 24-Mar-2020 10:09   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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OK, I was hoping for an automatic method. Since that's not possible I will experiment with it and see if it's feasible. This particular section, once built, is rarely changed so remembering to not upload the folders with the edit might be a solution when other parts needed updating. Don't know ... it's probably not worth the hassle, but thanks for the solution.
RobM

Posts: 3,234
Registered: 4-Aug-2006
Re: Neptune: question about separate section for folder thumbnails
Posted: 24-Mar-2020 14:45   in response to: jret in response to: jret
 
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It might be possible to make a script to do the change, for a single folder the file name could be entered as the target. It would be less prone to copy and paste errors.
JeffTucker

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Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Neptune: question about separate section for folder thumbnails
Posted: 24-Mar-2020 15:24   in response to: RobM in response to: RobM
 
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I might surrender and add this as a skin option. It's an easy fiddle because things are fairly modular. My skins don't include a lot of other stuff on the index page (additional pages, search boxes, tag clouds, and so on), so the layout is easy to control.

But it would not be controllable by folder without some bizarre gyrations - for example, where would the user enter a folder-level preference?
RobM

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Registered: 4-Aug-2006
Re: Neptune: question about separate section for folder thumbnails
Posted: 24-Mar-2020 15:53   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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jGromit wrote:
I might surrender and add this as a skin option. It's an easy fiddle because things are fairly modular. My skins don't include a lot of other stuff on the index page (additional pages, search boxes, tag clouds, and so on), so the layout is easy to control.
That would be better than a tool script.
But it would not be controllable by folder without some bizarre gyrations - for example, where would the user enter a folder-level preference?
You could have a variable to indicate an override of the position, so a user could then use a user variable in edit mode to toggle that variable for any folder. Makes your coding a bit more convoluted though, and possibly for limited use.
JeffTucker

Posts: 6,893
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Neptune: question about separate section for folder thumbnails
Posted: 24-Mar-2020 16:03   in response to: RobM in response to: RobM
 
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RobM wrote:
You could have a variable to indicate an override of the position....

This is one of those things I always have to tinker with, to refresh my memory about how local variables are handled in jAlbum. I actually have a skin called MinimalTinker in which I routinely plug in lines like this, just so I can explore:
System.out.println("Here's what the variable is now " + variable)
In this case, I believe it's even simpler than either of us imagined. If there's a project level variable, foldersLast, you can enter that as a user variable for Folder Whatever, and the script will take that local value in preference to the project variable. It doesn't "ripple down," but you probably wouldn't want it to, anyway.
RobM

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Registered: 4-Aug-2006
Re: Neptune: question about separate section for folder thumbnails
Posted: 24-Mar-2020 16:08   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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jGromit wrote:
RobM wrote:
You could have a variable to indicate an override of the position....

This is one of those things I always have to tinker with, to refresh my memory about how local variables are handled in jAlbum. I actually have a skin called MinimalTinker in which I routinely plug in lines like this, just so I can explore:

System.out.println("Here's what the variable is now " + variable)
In this case, I believe it's even simpler than either of us imagined. If there's a project level variable, foldersLast, you can enter that as a user variable for Folder Whatever, and the script will take that local value in preference to the project variable. It doesn't "ripple down," but you probably wouldn't want it to, anyway.
Yep, I find declaring a user variable in init.bsh easier than testing for void or null.
jret

Posts: 76
Registered: 5-Mar-2009
Re: Neptune: question about separate section for folder thumbnails
Posted: 24-Mar-2020 18:44   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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Sorry ... I would have replied sooner but my "blankety-blank" internet & phone service has been kaput for several hours.

So - a better explanation for the rationale of my request. I currently design/maintain a website for an organization my wife works with. The website is an "interesting" example of using jAlbum & Gromit to accomplish things that were probably not the original purpose of jAlbum + one of the skins. But since I'm more familiar with jAlbum/Gromit it's easy enough to customize webpages for purposes other than photos. Here's the HOME PAGE if you're interested.

What I would like to do on the PHOTO page is to convert from Gromit to Neptune and then use the "separate section for folder thumbnails" to create a "OutTakes" folder following the image thumbnails. After opening "Photos from Past Performances" open "3 Redneck Tenors" and scroll to the bottom until you find "OutTakes".

Since the PHOTO folder is built from a single project file, each folder inside the home or master folder is built the same way. Some, not all, have an "OutTakes" folder, but no other folders; if there can be a solution for moving the folder after the image thumbs, then it can be a global solution since all have the same design. Apologies for long-winded explanation but I hope it's clear enough.

FWIW, this is a "freebie" for a 501(c)3 non-profit and once my wife is no longer associated with the organization I don't intend to continue as webmaster (or whatever). Before that happens I need to move the entire site to something else that "normal" people can easily manage, perhaps one of the CMS solutions like WordPress - I doubt the organization can find anyone interested in tinkering with custom pages, etc. etc. Not part of this thread, but recommendations for an easy web authoring solution that achieves what they currently have would be greatly appreciated.

OK - waiting patiently for a fantastic solution ... whatever the outcome, I ultimately learn that much more about web design, coding, and more -- at my age, that's nothing short of a miracle.
RobM

Posts: 3,234
Registered: 4-Aug-2006
Re: Neptune: question about separate section for folder thumbnails
Posted: 25-Mar-2020 13:58   in response to: jret in response to: jret
 
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jret wrote:
OK - waiting patiently for a fantastic solution ... whatever the outcome, I ultimately learn that much more about web design, coding, and more -- at my age, that's nothing short of a miracle.
I'm sure a 'proper solution' will come from jGromit, but until then, and for my own fun, try the attached external tool on a test or duplicate project. It moves the folder thumbnail to below the images thumbnail, but keeps the thumbnail as a folder one rather than as an image. It is based on the setup of Neptune as in your album posted above.

Installing external tools is described here

Edited by: RobM on 27-Mar-2020 21:48
Removed redundant script
JeffTucker

Posts: 6,893
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Neptune: question about separate section for folder thumbnails
Posted: 27-Mar-2020 01:32   in response to: RobM in response to: RobM
 
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No need for RobM's fine tool, now. Try Neptune 32.

ETA: See the user's manual page, which explains how this can be applied only to selected folders, rather than the entire project:

https://jgromit.com/neptune/man/neptune_layout_thumbnails.html
RobM

Posts: 3,234
Registered: 4-Aug-2006
Re: Neptune: question about separate section for folder thumbnails
Posted: 27-Mar-2020 12:10   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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jGromit wrote:
No need for RobM's fine tool, now. Try Neptune 32.
https://jgromit.com/neptune/man/neptune_layout_thumbnails.html
Since such tools are not normally a good idea, but in this case it was better than manual hacking of the code, the tool will be removed later today.
jret

Posts: 76
Registered: 5-Mar-2009
Re: Neptune: question about separate section for folder thumbnails
Posted: 27-Mar-2020 12:46   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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Neptune 32 did the trick ... still tweaking the "new" look before going live but the 2 versions can be compared here: OLD NEW

An observation - compare the first thumbnail, "Superstar", between the 2 versions. I'm unable to change the crop focus in Neptune; when I do adjust the crop focus to better center the image, it appears to ignore the change. Not a deal breaker but I suspect I'm missing something or doing something incorrectly. Ideas?

Thanks for new feature - I wasn't intending to trigger a feature request, but merely how to achieve the end goal. This was a good surprise bonus. Thanks.

Thanks, RobM, for your help & suggestions ... greatly appreciated.
JeffTucker

Posts: 6,893
Registered: 31-Jan-2006
Re: Neptune: question about separate section for folder thumbnails
Posted: 27-Mar-2020 13:28   in response to: jret in response to: jret
 
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jret wrote:
An observation - compare the first thumbnail, "Superstar", between the 2 versions. I'm unable to change the crop focus in Neptune; when I do adjust the crop focus to better center the image, it appears to ignore the change. Not a deal breaker but I suspect I'm missing something or doing something incorrectly. Ideas?

Two things: first, you're using different thumbnail image bounds in the old vs. new albums, so naturally the cropping won't be the same. In the old album, your thumbnail image bounds are a 4:3 ratio (220x165). In the new album, you're using bounds that are a 3:2 ratio (240x160). So, changing the thumbnail image bounds will help.

The other difference (and it's the more important one) is that in the old album, you're not using a separate section for the folder thumbnails - in the new album, you are. You wouldn't think that would make a big difference, but it does. When you use a separate section for the folder thumbnails, the skin generates its own thumbnail images, since the skin lets you choose different settings for them (fixed vs. not fixed, choice of aspect ratio). In short, the jAlbum core isn't generating the needed images, so the skin does it. The routine I'm using to generate the skin-specific folder thumbnails isn't paying any attention to the crop focus.

Fixing that second issue is a real minefield. Imagine you've got an image that you're using for the folder. You want to generate a folder thumbnail for it, and you want that to be square, a 1:1 aspect ratio. But when you enter that folder, you then want that image shown in a different aspect ratio, based on the thumbnail image bounds, and that image will be 3:2. But there's only one "crop focus" for that image. Yet you've got two separate uses for the image, with different requirements.

I'm not sure how to handle that, which is why I've just let it slide. I could abandon the ability to set your own aspect ratio for the folder thumbnails - if you choose fixed shape, you get the aspect ratio set by the thumbnail image bounds. Maybe something I should consider.

The only truly reliable fix is to make a copy of the image you want to use for the folder, crop it exactly the way you want it (outside of jAlbum entirely), add it to the project, exclude it, then drag it to the "thumbnail" box on the right. Messy, but it works.

(There are similar crop focus problems when you use the jAlbum tool to set the crop focus, then use the same image for the folder thumbnail and for the theme image. jAlbum just doesn't know what to do with it.)
jret

Posts: 76
Registered: 5-Mar-2009
Re: Neptune: question about separate section for folder thumbnails
Posted: 27-Mar-2020 13:52   in response to: JeffTucker in response to: JeffTucker
 
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I was aware that I had changed dimensions & ratio and assumed that a correlation existed that was part of the issue. I did not realize that the skin was generating the thumb. Your explanation, as always, is excellent.

Cropping outside of jAlbum is easy enough. I think the only time I've observed the issue is when thumbnails are in portrait orientation and not centered vertically. Not a problem but it does help to understand how the thumbs are generated. Many thanks.
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